HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-05-20 Minutes I
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COUNCIL INFORMATION I-23
MINUTES C
Clarington Traffic Management Advisory Committee
Thursday,May 20 2004 at 7:00 p.m.
Location: Committee Room lA
ICI
Enter via Municipal Administrative Centre, north door
40 Temperance Street,Bowmanville
Present Andrew Kozak, Gord Lee, Clayton Morgan, Glenn Wallis
(Voting Dirk Zinner, Wayne Godwin,Ron Radcliffe.
Members)
Present Ron Baker, Leslie Benson,Tony Cannella, Stuart McAllister,
(Non-Voting Councillor Don MacArthur.
Members)
Regrets: Keith Richards,David Duffie
Absent: Glenda Baker, Teresa Williams, Brendon Nightingale, Dave Rickard
Secretary: Donna Van Schyndel
Chair Clayton Morgan called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m.
Meeting Protocol
Attendance
The meeting began with Clayton Morgan discussing meeting protocol.which
states, "that if someone is absent for three consecutive meetings the chair may
request that they be removed from the committee". Donna will notify Patti Barrie
in Clerk's Department that Teresa Williams and Glenda Baker should be
removed.
Speaking during meetings
The chair reminded everyone to let one person speak at a time and minimize side
discussions. Members should let the chair know if they wish to speak.
Speaking to the Public
The chair should be the only one to represent the committee by going out and
speaking with the public, or he would delegate someone to speak on his behalf.
No one should represent the Municipality in any way. If any member is contacted
by the public they should not express an opinion, instead bring any concerns back
to the committee where they will be discussed as a group. One member expressed
an opinion that this could limit the input by members.
Clarington Traffic Management Advisory Committee
MINUTES —May 20, 2004
Page 2 of 6
1) Minutes of previous meeting (April 15, 2004)
Moved by Ron Radcliffe; Seconded by Wayne Godwin, that the minutes
meeting of April 15, 2004 be approved with one change made to reflect that
item 4 (New Business), (b), the outstanding request has been taken care of by
Stuart McAllister, who emailed Ron Baker.
2) Items for information
a) Road Watch/Traffic Watch Update
Ron R. reported that there were 21 citizen reports, and 4 from the school
bus program submitted over the previous one month period.
Ron B. spoke to Dennis and he will be returning to operate the radar
message board next week. There were 2 public inquiries about borrowing
the message board.
b) Highway 407 Update
The April 27th meeting dealt with environmental issues and the brochure
will be brought to the next meeting for discussion. The IBI group
discussed issues and differences between 2003 and 2004 EA Terms of
Reference for the Highway 407 Committee. They need further
discussions on 407 local traffic issues. It is questioned as to where the
traffic will go in the meantime? Population growth is a concern. The next
meeting is June 1, 2004. Leslie Benson attends the meetings as well as
Janice Swartz. They attended the MTAG(Municipal Technical Advisory
Group)presented by Totten Sims Hubicki Associates, (TSH) which was
very informative. The public reaction is that this whole process is taking
far too long. Congestion is a definite problem which impacts a very large
area and Stuart McAllister will raise the issue that statistics should be kept
to show changing traffic patterns.
C) Bowmanville Community Improvement Plan Update
Next meeting is May 27th. There is an ad in the paper for tenders to buy
street lights. Street lights are on order and there has been good progress.
d) Other Information
Tony Canella advised that electrical approvals are still needed for the new
Roenigk Drive and King St. traffic signals and they should be operational
starting in mid June. Miwel Construction is doing the work and everyone
agrees that is looks very good.
3) Agenda items for discussion
Clarington Traffic Management Advisory Committee
MINUTES —May 20, 2004
Page 3 of 6
a) Concession St. W. traffic concerns (Liberty St. to Wellington St.
including intersection of Concession &Beech)
Speed and Volume Concerns
The general consensus was that operating speeds on Concession Street
were lower than most other streets in Clarington. The costs of speed
humps was discussed, with mixed feelings whether they are worth putting
in or not given the already low speeds, delays to emergency vehicles and
increased noise levels. The average cost of a single hump is
approximately$2,500.00 - $3,000.00. The Longworth Bridge Project will
be open during the fall and should reduce traffic volumes on Concession
Street. Some members felt that Concession St discussions should be put
on hold and monitored to determine if volumes drop and resident concerns
are reduced after the opening of the bridge and new roadway.
Visibility at Beech Ave and Concession St.
There was extensive discussion regarding the large Spruce Trees at
Concession and Beech Streets. It is a visibility issue and it was discussed
whether the trees should be taken out or not. A four-way stop is also a
consideration.
Ron B. advised the committee that the two evergreen trees on the s/e
corner are on municipal property and that complaints had been received.
Discussions with the adjacent property owner about removing or trimming
the municipal trees and restoring the boulevard to the owner's satisfaction
were futile with no cooperation from the resident. Ron B.'s opinion is that
the trees are a safety and liability concern and are a greater hazard than the
sight triangle requirements imposed by zoning by-law 84-63 which
regulates vegetation on private property. Ron B. noted that this location is
the worst vision problem in Clarington created by a group of municipal
trees. Ron B. also noting that an all-way stop was not warranted under
provincial guidelines due to the low side street activity but that if an all-
way stop were introduced it would still not remove the municipality's
liability. There are accidents at all-way stops similar to two way stops
because motorists become distracted and drive through without slowing or
stopping. Tony C. and Leslie B. reiterated that sight triangles are
important to public safety. Ron B. suggested as the visibility issue was an
immediate safety concern that it should be dealt with as soon as possible.
Councillor Don Macarthur felt that staff were too concerned with liability
issues and that other sight distance problems existed in the Municipality.
Clarington Traffic Management Advisory Committee
MINUTES —May 20, 2004
Page 4 of 6
After much discussion regarding the Concession St. concerns it was
Moved by Wayne Godwin; Seconded by Councillor Don MacArthur,
"That the Concession Street issues be deferred until the Longworth project
is completed and restudy again with the exception of the issue of the
Spruce Tree at Concession and Beech Streets."
Motion failed as a result of votes in favor: 3 and not in favor: 4.
Question of Voting Privileges
It was questioned as to whether the Council appointed representative was
able to make motions and vote. In the CTMAC constitution it was noted
that the Council representative served as a liaison and was not allowed to
vote.
Clayton Morgan stated that the New Council approved Committee
Protocol overrides the constitution and reads that each member of the
committee is entitled to a vote. The January 2004 letter from Patti Barrie
shows that Councillor Don MacArthurs name is on the same page as the
voting members appointed and because of this, the chairs interpretation
was that the Councillor was able to vote. Donna Van Schyndel will obtain
clarification from the Clerk's department for the next meeting as to who
has the right to vote on motions.
Lowering the legal speed limit
It was discussed if lowering the speed limit to 40 K.P.H. would be
reasonable. The committee seemed to feel this was a separate issue and
should be dealt with separately.
Stop sign issue
The stop sign issue has been on the agenda for two years and should be
dealt with.
Per Ron Baker's statistics,Tony Canella advised that the intersections on
Concession St. at both Beech and Centre St do not warrant having all way
stops. The Engineering Department cannot recommend all way stops if
they don't meet warrants. The Engineering Department needs to be
consistent. Council has the authority to override Engineering
recommendations. Concession St. already has two all-way stops one at
Prospect St. and another at Elgin St. Ron B. noted that provisions of sight
triangle are still valid at all-way stops and the trees should be removed.
Any accident would result in legal action being brought against the
Municipality.
Andrew Kozak stated that there wasn't any sight obstruction at the
intersection before because previously there were no sidewalks on the
south side. During the time of reconstruction it is reported that the firm of
Clarington Traffic Management Advisory Committee
MINUTES —May 20, 2004
Page 5 of 6
TSH advised the homeowner that the trees would not be altered due to
reconstruction. Councillor Don MacArthur stated that he hasn't heard of
any accidents at this intersection yet, and residents claimed there are
places worse than this such as the corner of Liberty and Concession.
Ross Libbey added that, if the trees are a safety concern and in violation of
By Law-84-63, why is it even an issue for the committee to debate?
Ron Baker advised that, if the committee feels the trees should stay
untouched they would have to recommend to council that the Zoning By-
Law and sight triangle requirements are not justified and should be
repealed. Don Macarthur felt the evergreen trees help to slow down traffic
and improve compliance with the stop sign. The adjacent property owner
has made reference to "his" tree but records show both are on municipal
property. Andrew K. stated that there have been no complaints in the past,
but Ron disagreed and advised that there were previous complaints.
Comments were made that there haven't been accidents so why worry
about the vision problem? Andrew K. noted there are worse trees than this
and Ron B. again disagreed. Leslie Benson commented that the trees are
even closer to the road than the 7.5m X 7.5m sight triangle since they are
on municipal property.
The committee will vote again because the first motion failed. "That the
trees are in violation and they should be removed." It was Moved by Ross
Libbey; Seconded by Dirk Zinner.
Motion failed as a result of votes in favor: 2 and not in favor: 5.
Due to the lack of consensus the committee will need to refer this to the
next meeting and may need to look at other possibilities such as; trimming
the limbs of the tree, moving the stop sign at Beech or a four-way stop.
There could be more negotiations with the adjacent property owners. This
is an older area and may not conform to the current regulations and this
neighborhood is unique and not in the same category as a new subdivision.
It was further discussed about the liability issues for the Municipality and
home owners. Councillor MacArthur suggested that everyone should
drive by the site and check out the situation. (if you turn left onto Scugog
St. you can't see what's coming) the same solution (white painted line)
could serve to work at Concession and Beech.
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Clarington Traffic Management Advisory Committee
MINUTES —May 20, 2004
Page 6 of 6
Intersection of Concession St. and Liberty St.
Clayton Morgan commented that he has driven east on Concession and
came to Liberty Street and tried to make a right turn on a red light and
stated that this was very dangerous due to the short sight distance to the
north. Most agreed that it should be discussed with the Region as to
whether a sign as either a regulatory or warning should be posted stating
"No right turn on red light". Stuart M. agreed to review with staff at the
Region on this sign issue as it had been discussed last year.
4) New Business
Any new business will be discussed at the next meeting.
5) Next meeting date: June 17, 2004—7:00 pm Room 1A (New Location-
Enter via Municipal Administration Centre, north door).
6) Adjournment-8:50 p.m.
Motion for adjournment was Moved by Clayton Morgan: "To carry over item 4
(New Business) to the next meeting; seconded by Wayne Godwin.