HomeMy WebLinkAbout06/13/2006 Minutes
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DRAFT MINUTES
OF THE CLARINGTON HWY. 407 COMMUNITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE
CAC MEMBERS PRESENT:
Chair - Bradford Soles
Vice-Chair - Linda Gasser
Fred Biesenthal
Staff in Attendance:
Janice Szwarz - Planning Services
Sharon Norris - Recording Secretary
Absent:
Councillor Jim Schell
Murray Paterson
Bill Harford
Ron Hooper
David Duffie, Traffic Advisory Committee
Karina Isert (LACAC)
Gerald Brown
Ross Libbey
Mark Canning
George Khouri
Leslie Benson - Engineering Services
DATE:
RE:
June 14, 2006
HIGHWAY 407 COMMUNITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE
June 13,2006 Meeting No. 27
Agenda Item Discussion .; Action
.
Welcome Meeting commenced 7: 1 0 p.m.
Welcome by Vice-Chair to Doug Allingham, Totten Sims
Hubicki, Dan Remollino and Rita Venneri of the Ministry of
Transcortation
Presentation Doug Allingham presented on the 407 East Environmental
by TSH Assessment and answered questions of the committee and
audience.
Questions/Answers from TSH:
David Duffy offered that the GO and/or VIA Rail would offer a
solution to the traffic concerns.
Answer:
. 2000 passengers per GO train equates to 1 lane of traffic.
. This type of transit works when taking one complete trip from
one location to another. A trip from Durham to Vaughan is
about 2 hours due to connections.
. Connections are the problem with this form of transit.
. Would not significantly reduce the traffic on Highway 401.
. Almost impossible to put back rail lines or expand them as
many right-of-ways are gone.
Cloongron
DRAFT MINUTES
OF THE CLARINGTON HWY. 407 COMMUNITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE
'..
Agenda Item Discussion .", Action
Linda Gasser asked for clarification on the Road Pricing Slide:
Answer:
. Road pricing has a lot of potential, however our current
environment is not conducive to having road pricing
programs soon enough to make a difference.
. Tolling is a possibility - the policy allows for tolling for new
facilities only.
. Tolling is generally accepted by the public under some
conditions.
. Road pricing can shift traffic from one road to another.
. A $10.00 toll to enter the downtown Toronto could work but
would be least accepted.
What type of traffic would end up on a tolled highway?
. Tolling would be as such to generate revenue.
. No toll forecasting will be done for this study.
. No idea at this time how the highway will be constructed, or
if it will be tolled.
. Tolling does not reduce travel, itmoves it from one place to
another.
Audience member stated that many people will not pay a toll.
Answer:
. Volumes on. the 407 are increasing dramatically to a point
where expansion is required.
. Tolls have increased, but traffic has increased and
continues to grow daily.
. Truck traffic is present on the 407 and increasing. 7 to 8%
of 407 traffic is truck traffic, compared to 15 to 20% truck
traffic on the 401.
. Saving 40 - 60 minutes in travel time is worth the price.
People's time is worth more to them and will pay for the
convenience.
C[![mgton
DRAFT MINUTES
OF THE CLARINGTON HWY. 407 COMMUNITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Agenda Item Discussion Action
. Once the 407 is too congested, people will not sit in traffic to
pay money. The owners need to find the right point (fee) to
generate revenue and not lose too many travellers.
Linda Gasser offered information from a Clarington This Week
Statistics article:
. 70% of cars have only one occupant and will have even if
we build all the roads in the Durham Transportation Master
Plan and widen other roads.
. People are not paying the cost of deciding to have only 1
person in the vehicle.
. Alternative 3 is only a temporary solution.
Linda Gasser asked if the new corridor onlv was constructed
what solution would it deliver (subtract out the other elements to
see what the 407 would deliver on its own). She would like to
see the numbers on each element of the solution.
Answer:
MTO has included all the elements in an effort to be
conservative and the results still show we need a combination of
all the elements. MTO does not control the delivery of any other
elements other than the 407 corridor.
A corridor on its own would require additional links.
MTO has offered incentives to multi passenger vehicles such as
special parking and car pool lanes. Society has not been
receptive.
Linda Gasser stated that there should be something that ties the
E.A. Study to the implementation decisions. A graphic is
needed showing 16 lanes and multiple links to show the impact
on the properties that would be required to accommodate it.
Fred Biesenthal asked about road pricing versus transit pricing
versus subsidies:
Answer:
. Toronto transit fares - 80% of the fares cover operating
costs.
. Durham region transit - 50% of fares cover operating costs.
. It is unknown what cost the motorist pays for roads.
. 100% of the gas tax does not go to transportation and
roads.
. Taxes pay for infrastructure.
. Gas tax dollars puts only a small dent in the actual costs of
road improvements.
Cl!1r.mgron
DRAFT MINUTES
OF THE CLARINGTON HWY. 407 COMMUNITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE
,,' Action ',',
Agenda Item Discussion
.,
Audience Member asked what physical area, for example, does
the Stevenson Road Interchange encompass?
. MTO to provide, however it should be noted that some of
the area is replacement and not just "new".
Audience Member stated that the 407 is more open than the
401 with no centre barrier or side barriers, or vegetation.
. MTO stated that the "Design" stage will involve public
consultation as well.
. MTO noted that the Federal Reg's did what they committed
to do.
. MTO will be held accountable to mitigate impacts and will
work to get enhancements.
Audience Member asked about the timing for the 401's 10 lanes
to Courtice.
. There are 10 lanes to Brock Road in Pickering presently.
. The next phase is Brock Road to Salem followed by Salem
to Lakeridge and Lakeridge to Courtice Road. The study
(timing) is incomplete at present.
Audience Member offered that the left hand does not know what
the right hand is doing and that the problem is, a lack of
connectivity. He suggested thatif a service was made
sufficiently expensive and sufficiently unreliable then the public
will use something else, and that the abandonment of the rail
right-of-ways showed a lack of vision. He asked if we have an
environmental issue to consider in that if we do nothing the
congestion becomes worst and so does our environment.
He asked the question "Do you agree that traffic levels expand
to fill in traffic, i.e. build a road and its full?
Answer:
Road construction is falling behind the need, when new roads
are built people who were traveling in off peak times can now
move to peak times - they are not new trips. The MTO is also
talking about a separate transitway corridor adjacent to the
traffic corridor. It was agreed that connectivity is the big issue.
Will the proposed road act as a catalyst for agricultural land
loss?
Answer:
No. The Greenbelt line will move north as lands along the south
are being deleted from the Greenbelt.
Can health care issues be quantified for each scenario?
No. There would be a different answer provided from each
expert.
Cl![mglOn
DRAFT MINUTES
OF THE CLARINGTON HWY. 407 COMMUNITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Agenda Item Discussion Action
Don MacArthur offered that it is a problem of getting people to
embrace transit like they do their cars. Our transit system pales
in comparison to other countries. It is economics of scale and it
would not be feasible in Bowmanville.
Linda Gasser stated that Clarington Council has taken their
position on Highway 407. She asked if Alternative 3, being a
combination of solutions, will be circulated to Council.
Answer: No.
Draft Minute Due to time constraints, all CAC members should email any All CAC Members
Review comments or concerns they may have with the draft minutes to
Janice Szwarz.
Additional Tabled, due to time constraints.
Aaenda Items
Next Meeting To be determined.