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HomeMy WebLinkAbout06/13/2006 Minutes CI!Kpn 1-4 DRAFT MINUTES OF THE CLARINGTON HWY. 407 COMMUNITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE CAC MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair - Bradford Soles Vice-Chair - Linda Gasser Fred Biesenthal Staff in Attendance: Janice Szwarz - Planning Services Sharon Norris - Recording Secretary Absent: Councillor Jim Schell Murray Paterson Bill Harford Ron Hooper David Duffie, Traffic Advisory Committee Karina Isert (LACAC) Gerald Brown Ross Libbey Mark Canning George Khouri Leslie Benson - Engineering Services DATE: RE: June 14, 2006 HIGHWAY 407 COMMUNITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE June 13,2006 Meeting No. 27 Agenda Item Discussion .; Action . Welcome Meeting commenced 7: 1 0 p.m. Welcome by Vice-Chair to Doug Allingham, Totten Sims Hubicki, Dan Remollino and Rita Venneri of the Ministry of Transcortation Presentation Doug Allingham presented on the 407 East Environmental by TSH Assessment and answered questions of the committee and audience. Questions/Answers from TSH: David Duffy offered that the GO and/or VIA Rail would offer a solution to the traffic concerns. Answer: . 2000 passengers per GO train equates to 1 lane of traffic. . This type of transit works when taking one complete trip from one location to another. A trip from Durham to Vaughan is about 2 hours due to connections. . Connections are the problem with this form of transit. . Would not significantly reduce the traffic on Highway 401. . Almost impossible to put back rail lines or expand them as many right-of-ways are gone. Cloongron DRAFT MINUTES OF THE CLARINGTON HWY. 407 COMMUNITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE '.. Agenda Item Discussion .", Action Linda Gasser asked for clarification on the Road Pricing Slide: Answer: . Road pricing has a lot of potential, however our current environment is not conducive to having road pricing programs soon enough to make a difference. . Tolling is a possibility - the policy allows for tolling for new facilities only. . Tolling is generally accepted by the public under some conditions. . Road pricing can shift traffic from one road to another. . A $10.00 toll to enter the downtown Toronto could work but would be least accepted. What type of traffic would end up on a tolled highway? . Tolling would be as such to generate revenue. . No toll forecasting will be done for this study. . No idea at this time how the highway will be constructed, or if it will be tolled. . Tolling does not reduce travel, itmoves it from one place to another. Audience member stated that many people will not pay a toll. Answer: . Volumes on. the 407 are increasing dramatically to a point where expansion is required. . Tolls have increased, but traffic has increased and continues to grow daily. . Truck traffic is present on the 407 and increasing. 7 to 8% of 407 traffic is truck traffic, compared to 15 to 20% truck traffic on the 401. . Saving 40 - 60 minutes in travel time is worth the price. People's time is worth more to them and will pay for the convenience. C[![mgton DRAFT MINUTES OF THE CLARINGTON HWY. 407 COMMUNITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE Agenda Item Discussion Action . Once the 407 is too congested, people will not sit in traffic to pay money. The owners need to find the right point (fee) to generate revenue and not lose too many travellers. Linda Gasser offered information from a Clarington This Week Statistics article: . 70% of cars have only one occupant and will have even if we build all the roads in the Durham Transportation Master Plan and widen other roads. . People are not paying the cost of deciding to have only 1 person in the vehicle. . Alternative 3 is only a temporary solution. Linda Gasser asked if the new corridor onlv was constructed what solution would it deliver (subtract out the other elements to see what the 407 would deliver on its own). She would like to see the numbers on each element of the solution. Answer: MTO has included all the elements in an effort to be conservative and the results still show we need a combination of all the elements. MTO does not control the delivery of any other elements other than the 407 corridor. A corridor on its own would require additional links. MTO has offered incentives to multi passenger vehicles such as special parking and car pool lanes. Society has not been receptive. Linda Gasser stated that there should be something that ties the E.A. Study to the implementation decisions. A graphic is needed showing 16 lanes and multiple links to show the impact on the properties that would be required to accommodate it. Fred Biesenthal asked about road pricing versus transit pricing versus subsidies: Answer: . Toronto transit fares - 80% of the fares cover operating costs. . Durham region transit - 50% of fares cover operating costs. . It is unknown what cost the motorist pays for roads. . 100% of the gas tax does not go to transportation and roads. . Taxes pay for infrastructure. . Gas tax dollars puts only a small dent in the actual costs of road improvements. Cl!1r.mgron DRAFT MINUTES OF THE CLARINGTON HWY. 407 COMMUNITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE ,,' Action ',', Agenda Item Discussion ., Audience Member asked what physical area, for example, does the Stevenson Road Interchange encompass? . MTO to provide, however it should be noted that some of the area is replacement and not just "new". Audience Member stated that the 407 is more open than the 401 with no centre barrier or side barriers, or vegetation. . MTO stated that the "Design" stage will involve public consultation as well. . MTO noted that the Federal Reg's did what they committed to do. . MTO will be held accountable to mitigate impacts and will work to get enhancements. Audience Member asked about the timing for the 401's 10 lanes to Courtice. . There are 10 lanes to Brock Road in Pickering presently. . The next phase is Brock Road to Salem followed by Salem to Lakeridge and Lakeridge to Courtice Road. The study (timing) is incomplete at present. Audience Member offered that the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing and that the problem is, a lack of connectivity. He suggested thatif a service was made sufficiently expensive and sufficiently unreliable then the public will use something else, and that the abandonment of the rail right-of-ways showed a lack of vision. He asked if we have an environmental issue to consider in that if we do nothing the congestion becomes worst and so does our environment. He asked the question "Do you agree that traffic levels expand to fill in traffic, i.e. build a road and its full? Answer: Road construction is falling behind the need, when new roads are built people who were traveling in off peak times can now move to peak times - they are not new trips. The MTO is also talking about a separate transitway corridor adjacent to the traffic corridor. It was agreed that connectivity is the big issue. Will the proposed road act as a catalyst for agricultural land loss? Answer: No. The Greenbelt line will move north as lands along the south are being deleted from the Greenbelt. Can health care issues be quantified for each scenario? No. There would be a different answer provided from each expert. Cl![mglOn DRAFT MINUTES OF THE CLARINGTON HWY. 407 COMMUNITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE Agenda Item Discussion Action Don MacArthur offered that it is a problem of getting people to embrace transit like they do their cars. Our transit system pales in comparison to other countries. It is economics of scale and it would not be feasible in Bowmanville. Linda Gasser stated that Clarington Council has taken their position on Highway 407. She asked if Alternative 3, being a combination of solutions, will be circulated to Council. Answer: No. Draft Minute Due to time constraints, all CAC members should email any All CAC Members Review comments or concerns they may have with the draft minutes to Janice Szwarz. Additional Tabled, due to time constraints. Aaenda Items Next Meeting To be determined.